(Admin Note from Alice: The Winchester Family Business is offline again. We’ve had another severe server issue, and the site was shutdown because it was crippling the shared host. This time, it might be out a while. Since it’s episode night though and we’re anxious to discuss the episode, I’m posting Bookdal’s “Let’s Speculate” here. So, feel free to discuss to your hearts content!)
Warning: If you have not seen tonight’s episode, “Mother’s Little Helper,” then beware spoilers ahead!
If you have not seen tonight’s episode, “Mother’s Little Helper,” then beware of spoilers.
Episode Summary:In Misha Collins’s directorial debut, he tackles an Adam Glass script that delves into the history of Abaddon and the Men of Letters. The episode begins with a rather domestic murder, which revolved around a frustrated wife killing her picky, tv-watching husband. This murder sets up the separate storylines for Sam and Dean. Dean appears to be in a super focused research mode, but we learn he’s really just on a bender, as Dean is wont to do. Dean tells Sam to investigate the case on his own while he hangs back and “researches,” i.e. drinks bottles of hard liquor and flirts with Crowley. Sam figures out that something is going on with the case and suspects souls are being hijacked or destroyed. There were several flashbacks during the episode to both the current Mark of Cain story and the former Soulless Sam story.
During his investigation Sam comes across a former nun who knows about demons, Abaddon, and the Men of Letters. Her story shows how Abaddon was planning to take souls to build an army and featured Henry Winchester. The story reveals how and when Josie was possessed by Abaddon, as an act of sacrifice to save Henry because she loved him. While Sam is listening to the history lesson, Dean and Crowley are hanging out a bar. Crowley is doing some marriage/psychological counselling for Dean and when he leaves to go to the bathroom, a hunter appears to go after him with a knife. Dean, of course, stops the hunter. We learn in a later scene that the hunter is a demon and was there to prove that Dean would actually save Crowley – Crowley says he and Dean are besties but he also says that now Dean is “ready”. The episode ends with Sam telling Dean that Abaddon is collecting souls for an army and the brothers sit as separate tables as they continue to research how to find and take down Abaddon.
Speculations and Questions:
1. We know that Crowley is really planning something not good, right? Also the soul thing? That was a Crowley/Castiel story, right? I’m telling you Crowley/Abaddon are not enemies.
2. Dean’s coldness – is it really his reaction to Sam’s words or are we in Mark of Cain territory now? Does the mark drastically change the emotional state of the bearer? Does it take the soul?
3. I think Abaddon saved Henry because he had a wife and kid. I think the love thing was a copout and cheap.
4. So now we see Sam is becoming increasingly affected by Dean’s coldness. That upset facial expression after their phone call was very telling.
5. Why the souls? Will this dovetail into the Metatron/Gadreel story? Didn’t Death state that it was all about the souls? Is this show actually admitting that seasons 6 and 7 existed?!
6. I have been saying since the beginning of season 8 that this season and last are master parallels of seasons 4 and 5. I am sticking to my theory.
Congratulations to Misha on his debut!
Share your thoughts with us!
Crowley egging Dean on was fascinating. I don’t think he’s working with the Ginger but he is clearly playing Dean. Dean is back to serious drinking. I’m glad he knows the Mark is bad news. I’d be more upset if he was not noticing it’s effect. Crowley does love to flirt, doesn’t he.
IA, Sam is starting to cotton on that all is not well in Deanville. Can’t wait til next ep!
1. We know that Crowley is really planning something not good, right? Also the soul thing? That was a Crowley/Castiel story, right? I’m telling you Crowley/Abaddon are not enemies. [b]I’m not sure if Crowley and Abaddon are enemies or not. She was pretty ticked that Hell was being run by a salesman. She found out just about the time Crowley was captured by the Winchesters, so I’m not sure if they had the time to make peace. But it is possible. Crowley is up to no good whatever.[/b]
2. Dean’s coldness – is it really his reaction to Sam’s words or are we in Mark of Cain territory now? Does the mark drastically change the emotional state of the bearer? Does it take the soul? [b]I’m guessing a combination of the two. The Mark of Cain may be feeding off of Dean’s resentment of Sam not forgiving him.[/b]
3. I think Abaddon saved Henry because he had a wife and kid. I think the love thing was a copout and cheap. [b]I agree. I thought Josie did it because of John and his mom. I wish they hadn’t gone the in love route.[/b]
4. So now we see Sam is becoming increasingly affected by Dean’s coldness. That upset facial expression after their phone call was very telling. [b]Yes, but I still want him to stick to his guns.[/b]
5. Why the souls? Will this dovetail into the Metatron/Gadreel story? Didn’t Death state that it was all about the souls? Is this show actually admitting that seasons 6 and 7 existed?! [b]I hope they are going to admit season 6 and 7 exist! At least we got a flashback to Soulless!Sam.[/b]
6. I have been saying since the beginning of season 8 that this season and last are master parallels of seasons 4 and 5. I am sticking to my theory. [b]I’m more seeing this season and 10 as being parallels to 4 and 5. I just think there is too much to cover to have Dean have a going dark then being redeemed this season. I think redemption from whatever bad comes from the MOC will come next season. I do think Sam may forgive Dean by the end of this season.[/b]
First – Alice, thanks for posting this here. I am so sorry the WFB site is giving you trouble. You are a saint for dealing with these problems (not an angel, because we all know what they are like!). I hope you know how much we all appreciate your efforts.
Bookdal – so much fun to speculate. Thanks for pulling this all together. I liked the episode, but did not love it – the brothers separate, not my favorite thing.
1. I agree Crowley is playing Dean, but I do not think he is working with Abbadon. I do not see either of them agreeing to share Hell. Ever.
2. I think we are definitely is MoC territory. I do think though that we got there in part because of Sam and the way he shut out his brother. I think it is sort of like illness or a predisposition. You have the gene to get sick, but you do not actually get sick until your resistance is down and immune system compromised. I think Sam’s treatment of Dean, Dean’s guilt, and the MoC created the perfect storm for Dean to be vulnerable. So, yes, it is taking him over – but I do not think it is taking his soul.
3. I agree with you, but not beyond realm of possibility that she had a crush on Henry. Those Winchester men!
4. Yes, thank goodness. Hopefully, Sam will realize that saving his brother is more important to him than being right or punishing him for his mistakes – a lesson Dean had to figure out in seasons 4 and 5. Dean, of course, had Bobby to help guide him there.
5. I did not see this coming. We already had so much going on and plenty of reason to want Abbadon gone after she killed Henry and the Men of Letters and planned to take over, that I am kind of surprised they added this additional thread this late in the season.
6. I totally agree you are right. I think they are mirrors of each other, with the brothers’ roles reversing.
Loved this ep! Have to watch it again with my Cinema degree goggles on but Misha did a great job with a script with so much going on! Didn’t see any glaring mistakes in terms of shot selection continuity to pull me out of the story so that’s a good thing! I loved learning more about the MoL and how Abaddon came to possess Josie … that was heartbreaking actually.
Anyway to the questions:
1. I agree with Percyowner … I really don’t think that Crowley is working with Abaddon. They’re last face to face it was just the two of them (except two low-level demons) and they were not friends by any means (Road Trip). Sam, Dean and Cas were gone so there was no one to put on a show for in terms of making it look like they’re enemies. Crowley is playing Dean, for his own gain (get rid of Abaddon so he can take Hell back) and I doubt the fact that the boys kept him locked up at the bunker has won them any brownie points with him. I still think he working with an angel (probably Gadreel and is probably playing him as well) so that he can take back Hell and somehow trick Gadreel into locking all the angels in Heaven so they can’t stop him. I may eat crow and I can live with that (OK, actually eating crow NO) but that’s my thoughts on the matter.
2. I’d be willing to agree with you here. Although Dean being cold to Sam because of the Mark of Cain I can stomach much more than the alternative … it’s an outside source causing the coldness and I find that intriquing while the whole fight between the boys has become drawn out and tiresome on it’s own.
3. Yep, totally agree!
4. I’m sure he is and he saw how Dean was at the end of the last episode when Dean was holding the First Blade so I’m sure he’s actually getting worried.
5. Well, Season 6 and 7 did actually exist and I actually found it interesting that learning about the demons harvesting souls reminded Sam of how he was when he was soulless. Sam did say Abaddon was doing it to raise an army so there’s an actual reason for it but he was obviously shook by that revelation. Demons, soulless humans … girl is going all out!
6. It does seem to be mirroring Seasons 4 and 5 a lot but it’s different enough that it works. I kinda like because as much and I love Dean (and Sam and Cas) he’s rarely made a mistake. Yeah, he sold his soul to a crossroads demon to bring Sammy back at the end of Season 2 and it was he that broke the first seal when he started torturing with Allistair but it was never treating with the same gravitas as Sam taking Ruby’s side or the demon blood addiction. Yeah, Sam was mad at him but it was more a “you brought me back to watch you die” sort of thing and he immediately went to we’ve got to find a way out of this deal and Cas didn’t seem upset with Dean so much that he opened the first seal but that he supposed to be the one to stop it. I’ve always though that Dean was so hard on Sam and Cas when they made a mistake because he’d never really made one so he didn’t have the empathy to pull either one of them out of it. Now he has and hopefully they will be the ones to pull him out of it before it’s too late. Or at least I hope!
Good episode but some serious canon questions. We know that human souls are twisted and tortured in to demons after a long time in hell. How does the soul become twisted once it’s separated from the person and stored in a mason jar in an abandoned convent? If that were the case, wouldn’t Sam’s soul been twisted/warped/demony after all its time in the cage with Lucifer and Michael? That part wasn’t very clear to me. I hope they weren’t trying to say soulless = demon because that clearly isn’t the case. I’m with you – glad that they’re not ignoring S6/S7, though.
I think Crowley and Abaddon are enemies but Crowley’s playing a long game here, and we’re not privy to the details yet.
Nice backstory on Josie/Abaddon but I’m with you; they could have done with the unrequited duckie love and just gone with the fact the Josie did this because Henry had a family.
I disagree with those saying the brother’s fighting is getting tiresome; they haven’t really fought in the last two episodes; it’s Dean pulling away and isolating himself and, for all intents and purposes, acting like a drunken dick.
Was pretty obvious to me that the hunter in the bar wasn’t a hunter but was testing Dean. Dean really is off his game if he couldn’t see that. To use a phrase he has used in th past, Dean is way off the rails now; he truly is Crowley’s bitch. He didn’t have Sam’s back in this episode, which is probably a first time as far as Dean goes. Sam knows something is up; he just doesn’t know the extent to which the First Blade and Crowley are exerting their influence over Dean.
1. We know that Crowley is really planning something not good, right? Also the soul thing? That was a Crowley/Castiel story, right? I’m telling you Crowley/Abaddon are not enemies.
I don’t believe Crowley and abaddon are are working together. I still think it’s very significant that Crowley is the only demon who smokes out blood red. I think Crowley is more than he says he is and he has plans of his own but I don’t think he’s working with abbadon. I think he wants her out of the way. he may want dean Winchester as his own special agent when he gains control of hell, which I think is why he tested dean in this eppy.
2. Dean’s coldness – is it really his reaction to Sam’s words or are we in Mark of Cain territory now? Does the mark drastically change the emotional state of the bearer? Does it take the soul?
I think dean’s coldness to sam is a combination of a lot of things but I do think the moc is what is influencing him now. dean walked away from sam on that bridge because he couldn’t face his brother. I think dean is actually feeling shame and guilt for how he went about saving sam. I think thinman gave dean a clearer picture of what sam is truly angry about, the lies. Lies ruin relationships. Dean agreed to the moc because he was feeling like he was poison. he felt guilty about kevin and sam. dean took on the mark because of his own self loathing and guilt. I think the mark is playing on those feelings. like sam with the demon blood, dean looked to atone by taking on the mark and killing abbadon. sam wanted to atone for not saving dean by taking on the db and killing Lilith. it’s a parallel story. sam’s db gave him a feeling of power even though he intended to do good with it, but in the end it would’ve essentially destroyed who sam is. now dean is addicted to that same power. he tells himself it’s for the right reasons, but in the end, it’s about how it makes him feel. the power replaces his feeling of guilt. in the end, it will destroy who he is.
3. I think Abaddon saved Henry because he had a wife and kid. I think the love thing was a copout and cheap.
I Josie saved henry because he had a family and she apparently had no one. abbadon didn’t kill henry because she wanted to get into the mol bunker and destroy everyone and everything. henry just got away from abaddon in tioms, but she ended up killing him anyway in the end.
4. So now we see Sam is becoming increasingly affected by Dean’s coldness. That upset facial expression after their phone call was very telling.
sam loves his brother. that will never change. of course he’ll notice dean’s behavior. I think everything happens for a reason and I think sam’s db addiction will come into play now. sam has an advantage that dean didn’t have in s4. sam lived through addiction. he can recognize the signs. dean had no idea of what sam was doing until it was too late. sam has the benefit of experience on his side. he will see the signs and I think he will be able to act accordingly when the time comes to reach out and save his brother.
5. Why the souls? Will this dovetail into the Metatron/Gadreel story? Didn’t Death state that it was all about the souls? Is this show actually admitting that seasons 6 and 7 existed?!
s6 was awesome. s7 was good too. souls seem to be playing a role here….maybe it’s about sam saving dean’s and cas getting souls back to heaven.
6. I have been saying since the beginning of season 8 that this season and last are master parallels of seasons 4 and 5. I am sticking to my theory.
I think s4 and 5 parallel this season and possibly 10 as well. I agree with dashnjo. I think it’s more along the lines of ea. walking in the other’s shoe. and not for nothing, I know sam has saved dean plenty, but he’s never had a season finale save, so it’ll be a nice change of pace for everyone I think if sam gets the save here.
First off, thank you Alice for posting this here. My heart skips a beat if I can’t have Winchester news with my morning coffee. 🙂 I hope you can get the site back up.
That was a good episode. I’m looking forward to watching it again, it had loads of information and Misha did a stellar job directing it. I don’t think Crowley and Abaddon are working together, I really think they are enemies, but hey, who knows, sometimes enemies become “friends” on this show! 😉 Dean being so cold to Sam I think is partly due to his worry about the Mark of Cain, and yes, probably he’s a little po’d at his brother, throw alcohol in the mix, and you have surly Dean. I am not happy that Adam Glass decided to make Josie in love with John! It’s like, come on man, this is not a freaking Harlequin romance! I’m going to ignore that on rewatch and when Abaddon has Josie in a choke hold, Josie decides to sacrifice herself because Henry has a family to go home to. That’s the true meaning of sacrifice. That being said, I did really like the flashbacks to that part of the story. Now for another hiatus. Crap.
I really liked the episode because we finally got to see Sam back to being his intelligent capable self. Something we haven’t seen in a long time. Loved that he had recorded the exorcism on his phone just in case.
Crowley is playing Dean and I’m loving it. Hopefully, at the end, Dean will realize what an a@@ he’s been to Sam and make that apology. If that doesn’t happen, it will ruin the whole season for me.
I don’t think Crowley is working with Abaddon either. I do think he wants Dean under his control for more than killing Abaddon though. I still think he wants control of heaven so maybe he thinks Dean can kill Metatron?
Nice back story for Josie/Abaddon. Dean still trying to mentor a young hunter-so nurturing Dean is still in there somewhere. Dean drinking is working reference season8 Cas and Dean in a bar Cas’s comment to Dean about drinking on the job. Dean retorts”What show have you been watching.” He does fib a bit to Sam so what else is new? Sam is catching on slowly the same way Dean did to souless Sam. Sam looked smart in this episode. Dean looked appropriately frazzled. Adam wrote wonderful lines for Crowley. The direction was good as it showed the facial nuances of the situation so not overly anvil on the head dialogue. Don’t think Crowley and Abaddon are working together. Winchesters united in purpose at the end but at separate tables says so much.
1. We know that Crowley is really planning something not good, right? Also the soul thing? That was a Crowley/Castiel story, right? I’m telling you Crowley/Abaddon are not enemies.
**I think they are enemies she was not thrilled with crowley when she found out he was the king and running hell. So I think they are enemies.
2. Dean’s coldness – is it really his reaction to Sam’s words or are we in Mark of Cain territory now? Does the mark drastically change the emotional state of the bearer? Does it take the soul?
**My thinking its the mark taking Deans emotions and since Sam did just call them basically business partners that is what Sam is getting and has been with Dean. Dean wanted to talk after Kevin but Sam took off so like I said the coldness is coming and I think Sam might be regretting just calling themselves business partners. He may eventually want the family thing back but it maybe a little to late for that now that its been festering so long. I think the making amends could have happend had dean didn’t have the mark but since the mark dean is changing and the mark is doing that to him. And not sure if Sam is ignoring the signs or what but he is going to have to find a way to reach dean. I mean he knows what family means to dean when he cut off the family and brothers thing it hurt dean. I have to go back and watch his reaction to the phone call i missed it.
3. I think Abaddon saved Henry because he had a wife and kid. I think the love thing was a copout and cheap.
4. So now we see Sam is becoming increasingly affected by Dean’s coldness. That upset facial expression after their phone call was very telling.
**If that is true then this is what he asked for guessing he never thought dean would take it seriously that he would do everything to fiight for them being brothers but i think alot of it is the mark of cain. I just hope sam sees the signs in time to see what is going on with dean.
5. Why the souls? Will this dovetail into the Metatron/Gadreel story? Didn’t Death state that it was all about the souls? Is this show actually admitting that seasons 6 and 7 existed?! sounds like it
6. I have been saying since the beginning of season 8 that this season and last are master parallels of seasons 4 and 5. I am sticking to my theory. **I think you are right so going to be nice to see how this is handled with dean in sam’s shoes and sam in deans shoes. sam might be wearing the big boy pants and see what it is like to make the hard choices dean has over the season and what his brother has had so much burden put on him. Sam is always the one who never feels guilty and lets things go where dean festers with everything.
Hi Alice. I’m thinking that Crowley is planning on making Dean a Knight of Hell. That’s what happened to Cain when he touched the knife with the mark. One of our fears is that a Winchester could become truly evil and this time it could happen. Crowley would be in Heaven if he could do this. You know what I mean.
I don’t think that Cain became a demon until he killed Abel. So does that mean that Dean will become a demon if he kills Abbadon? or does he have to kill a human with it (Sam). Is this going to be another Church scene? Sam talks Dean out of killing Abbadon (curing her instead) so that Dean won’t turn into a demon.
I really don’t see the huge rift between the brothers yet. They are still together even if Sam is keeping Dean at arms length and they obviously care very much about each other. Sam checked in pretty regularly. Dean is starting to pull away as he is becoming more and more under Crowely’s control. But so far they are still together.
The soul thing made the search for Abbadon more personal for Sam but it could have been handled a little better I thought. Souless Sam had no morals but he wasn’t a mindless killing machine. I think Abbadon’s plan for the collected souls was to corrupt them into demons. How I have no idea.
It will be interesting to find out how Crowely makes Dean so addicted to the Blade he will protect him at any cost.
Over all I really enjoyed this episode. Off to watch it again.
crowley has had an end game since he was first introduced. i think it’s quite telling that he’s the one villain that the winchesters faced who’s still alive. i’m not so sure turning into a demon is the result of killing abbadon or not. it could just lead to dean losing his morals, his humanity and he just becomes evil, an evil human who works for the other side, kind of like jake. jake didn’t turn into a demon, but he embraced both his powers and yed. i’m not sure where they are headed in that regard, but i am sure sam will keep dean human no matter which way it plays out.
i agree with cheryl. if these boys are in a fight, it’s the most civilized and friendly fight i’ve ever seen. i saw at no point in this eppy or the last any anger between either of the boys. if you were to watch for the first time, you wouldn’t even know they were having problems. the way it played out both times i watched, dean didn’t go with sam not because he was angry but simply because he was jonesing for a fix. he’s an addict now and addicts tend to isolate themselves from those they don’t want knowing what they are up to. the minute sam left dean took out the bottle. i don’t think he was drinking because he was upset, i think he was drinking because he needed to quench his thirst for his new addiction and the alcohol was all he had to fill that need.
as far as the boys rift, i don’t find it tiresome as i don’t find it to be gut wrenching, in the sense that there is no animosity between the boys. i found upon rewatch a natural progression of dealing with what’s happened and in all honesty it’s only been about 6 eps so far. first sam finds out the truth and has to deal with the ramifications. he doesn’t get the opportunity to talk to dean about any of it as dean, who couldn’t handle what he’d done, walked away. he in fact tried to stay away. it was sam in sharp teeth who wouldn’t budge. he wouldn’t leave despite dean trying to get rid of him. while it’s true that sam told dean if they wanted to be partners fine, but if you want to be brothers….that reaction came right after dean had proposed to just sweep everything under the rug after sam told him they were broken and he couldn’t trust him. sam’s proposal which was in essence what dean essentially asked for, as he just wanted to go back to the routine of work and not deal with anything, hasn’t been easy for either brother. but i am glad that sam is standing firm on this as i do believe there are issues that need to be dealt with. but as i stated, sam loves dean and he can’t turn it off. as we see in first born, sharp teeth and the purge, sam is dealing with alot of emotion, most of which has to do with his guilt regarding killing kevin. the conversation in the purge really telling of how sam is feeling in regard to the upside to being alive. captives changed a lot for sam. sam was freed of that guilt that he’s been drowing in regarding kevin. once sam was absolved of that, his focus changed. we find out what he’s truly angry about in thinman. it’s not the save, it’s the lies. it comes down to dean’s lack of trust in sam. i think that’s the biggest issue for sam. thinman was the turning point for both brothers regarding their struggles right now. sam, who is very empathetic, with the help from the ghostfacers, can understand and empathize with dean’s actions. he’s still angry. they need to deal with all this stuff, but we’ve seen a softer side to sam since thinman. dean has a better picture as well. he now knows from what sam’s anger stems….it’s the lies. had the blade not come into play in the next episode, these issues might have been dealt with sooner. but alas, it’s all meant for the big finish. sam and dean were on much friendlier terms in blade runners. there was no tension whatsoever. not until sam saw what the blade was doing to his brother that is. now that dean’s taken that first hit, he’s addicted to it. first blade and db got nothing on crack. :p i still think that the clarity ea. have reached in thinman is there. it’s just that now dean’s attention has shifted to his addiction, which means sam’s attention will shift to dean’s behavior. it’s only been one eppy since dean touched the blade. it makes sense that it’ll take a couple of eps before sam recognizes the signs of addiction given that crowley has the blade. i think it’ll all culminate though during the big 3 eps at the end of the season. sam will save dean. they will talk about their issues. it’ll all get dealt with i have no doubt. sam’s anger is lessening with ea. eppy, but his resolve is strong which i’m glad, because these boys need to talk through their issues. they need to finally understand where the other is coming from and learn to change what needs changing and accept what won’t change. it’ll make them stronger as brothers and all the more formidable against their enemies. it’s why the winchesters will win. 😉
what i meant was that crack aint got nothing on the moc and db. 😀
Alice, I am so sorry the WFB site is broken! I hope it can run again. I love it. Although I am happy the “Let’s Speculate” was posted here, there just isn’t enough Winchester Family Business at this site! I LOVE WFB. Good luck! I appreciate everything you do.